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└◇867:
【依頼】チェックお願いツリー [ハーブ] 12/12 02:13

 ├◇868:新・誤訳リストの英語コメント [ハーブ] 12/12 02:13
 │├◇901:直らなかったリストの和訳 [白い都] 12/12 21:48
 ││└◇906:Parth Galen 修正案 [ハーブ] 12/13 01:29
 │└◇909:Re:新・誤訳リストの英語コメント [Evenstar] 12/13 07:06
 ├◇869:修正英語コメント&リスト表題 [ハーブ] 12/12 02:14
 │└◇902:形式・誤訳リストは表紙なし [白い都] 12/12 21:57
 ├◇870:手紙 【最終稿】修正+同封資料リスト [ハーブ] 12/12 02:17
 │├◇871:同封資料リストのスペルミス申告 [白い都] 12/12 02:31
 │├◇907:手紙文のスペルミス申告 [ハーブ] 12/13 01:40
 │├◇908:手紙本文の現状 [白い都] 12/13 02:34
 ││└◇912:P.S.について [Evenstar] 12/13 08:35
 ││ └◇917:ありがとうございました [ハーブ] 12/13 15:15
 │└◇911:Re:手紙 【最終稿】修正+同封資料リスト [Evenstar] 12/13 07:42
 ├◇913:【連絡】完成稿は午後のうちに [ハーブ] 12/13 11:17
 │└◇914:【完成稿】NL社宛手紙文 [ハーブ] 12/13 11:42
 └◇915:【決定稿】誤訳リスト [ハーブ] 12/13 14:28
  ├◇916:誤訳リスト選択解説 [ハーブ] 12/13 14:30
  └◇918:【緊急!】OurPeopleとWhiteCityの順序逆 [白い都] 12/13 19:57
   ├◇919:Re:【緊急!】しまった、時間延長願い [ハーブ] 12/13 21:10
   │└◇920:発送明日。午前10時締め [白い都] 12/13 21:33
   │ └◇922:言い忘れ・行動予定 [白い都] 12/13 21:44<-last
   └◇921:暫定訂正案「種族」 [ハーブ] 12/13 21:42


867● 【依頼】チェックお願いツリー[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/12 02:13
異常なまでに一日の投稿数が多くなっているこの板のフォローは、困難で無駄も多く申し訳ないので、新規にツリーを立てました。はい、Evenstar 様はじめ、ご多忙の中、英文のチェックをして下さる方の便宜のためです。押しつけがましく思われるのではないか、と恐れつつ。m( _ _ )m

・締め切り:手紙本文・誤訳リスト、13日(金)午前10時(#822白い都さま)。
・優先順位:今まで未チェックのものを先にお願いできればと存じます。
1.《誤訳リストの英語コメント》新規(フィリパさん宛ベース)
2.《誤訳リストの英語コメント》修正(8月版ベース)と、表紙、タイトルなど
3.【最終稿】現在までに判明した箇所のみ修正済み。短いバージョンを考えるのは断念(というかどこも削りたくない仕上がりになっていると思う)。同封資料の名前も見てやって下さいますか。

どうか、何とぞ、よろしくお願い致します!
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868● 新・誤訳リストの英語コメント[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/12 02:13
フィリパさん宛の「DVDに残っている誤訳リスト」に、★印が新たに書き加えたものです。これは「再英訳された誤訳字幕リストの後半部分」になります。
☆#865より言い訳引用:申し訳ないですが私の語彙で、私のかねがね思っていたこと(の一部)を書くしか出来ませんでした。「時代」(chapter 28, chapter 39) については、「私が考えたこと」ではないのでコメントをつけられていません。
-----------------------------------

EXAMPLES OF BAD TRANSLATIONS IN DVD(2-disk)/VHS
     (Remaining Uncorrected)


>Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (chapter 6)
Gandalf:
[script] There are some things that I must see to.
[subtitle] I have my business.
Frodo:
[script] What things?
[subtitle] What business?
Gandalf:
[script] Questions. Questions that need answering.
[subtitle] Many things. I have to finish them.
comment:★This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf the ring might be the One Ring, and the suspicion urges him to leave in a hurry. The subtitle fails to show the gravity of the situation.

>The Shadow of the Past (chapter 8)
Gandalf:
[script] But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
[subtitle] But its power is too terrible to imagine.
comment:★Viewers cannot see, reading only this translation, why the powerful wizard will not take the burden in stead of the little one. The ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great, and that is the very reason that no one but Frodo the Hobbit is to be the ring-bearer, the hero and the center of the whole story.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Boromir:
[script] Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king.
[subtitle] A king for Gondor? We do not need one.
comment:These subtitles strongly give an impression that the word 'king' is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic that had never known kingship.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Gandalf:
[script] I will help you bear this burden, Frodo Baggins. As long as it is yours to bear.
[subtitle] I will share the burden. I will be watching you.
comment:★Again the subtitle misses the biggest point. The burden of the ring can not be shared. It is solely Frodo's.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Boromir:
[script] If this is indeed the will of the council, then Gondor will see it done.
[subtitle] If this is the decision of the council, Gondor will obey it.
comment:★Boromir does not 'obey' the council here, he only concedes to it. He has not given up his argument yet that the ring can be a powerful weapon against the enemy, and this will lead to his tragedy at the climax.
The subtitle makes Boromir a betrayer, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish purpose.

>A Journey in the Dark (chapter 28), The Road Goes Ever On...(chapter 39)
Gandalf:
[script] So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.
[subtitle] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but you can't change it. What's more important for you is, to think what you should do at the moment.
NOTE: Only the subtitle for the latter part of the first line has been changed.
[subtitle in theater] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but it is too late to regret.


>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] I know what you would say, and it would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart.
[subtitle] Your words sound kind, but they mean warning to me.
comment:★The subtitler does not seem to know that 'but for' is one thing and 'but' is quite another.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Boromir:
[script] We're all afraid, Frodo, but to let that fear drive us to destroy what hope we have. Don't you see, it's madness.
[subtitle] We're all afraid, but if we are overcome by fear, all will be lost. Don't forget it.
comment:★Just where is all that the ring means to Boromir?

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] It has taken Boromir.
[subtitle] Boromir....
comment:The subtitler, Natsuko Toda, often does this with short sentences: She takes one single noun out of the line and adds a question mark, or else three dots. Another example is in the article of TheOneRing.Net: "Warning?"
These two cases are representative of this style of hers. ★この後にあった「氷山の一角」誤訳リスト表紙で使ったので消します。

Such subtitles, needless to say, give audience little information and much confusion. But it does not occur to many that the fault is in the translation and not in the script itself.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
Aragorn:
[script] I let Frodo go.
[subtitle] He has left.
Boromir:
[script] Then you did what I could not.
[subtitle] I am ashamed.
comment:With these subtitles the audience cannot see that Boromir recognizes Aragorn as his superior, nor that Aragorn resisted the ring's temptation to which Boromir had succumbed.
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901● 直らなかったリストの和訳[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/12 21:48
>ガンダルフの用事
これはガンダルフが、ビルボの指輪は「一つの指輪」かもしれないと思いつき、疑念が彼をせき立てて出発させる場面である。字幕はこの危機感を伝えることに失敗している。

>指輪の力の恐ろしさ
視聴者は、この翻訳を読んだだけでは、なぜ力のある魔法使いが、小さき者に代わって重荷を引き受けようとしないのか、わからない。指輪は強大な者の手にあればより一層恐ろしい。まさにこの理由のためにホビット族のフロドの他は、主人公であり物語全体の中心である指輪所持者になりえないのである。

>ゴンドールの王
この字幕は、ボロミアにとって「王」という言葉が全くなじみがないものであるかのような印象を強く与える。あたかもゴンドールは王制を経験したことがない共和国であったかのように。

>重荷を分かち合う
またしても字幕は重要ポイントを間違えた。指輪の重荷は分かち合うことができない。それはフロドただ一人のものである。

>ゴンドールは従う
ボロミアはここで会議に譲歩しているにすぎず、「従って」いない。指輪が敵に対する強力な武器になりうるという自説を彼はまだ捨てていない。このことがクライマックスにおける彼の悲劇を導くこととなる。
字幕はボロミアのことを、一旦は従っておきながら私利私欲のために寝返る裏切り者に仕立てている。

>つらい目
注記:第一文の後半の字幕にみ変更された。

>警告に思える
字幕翻訳家は「but for(もし〜がなければ)」が「but(しかし)」とは全く別物であることを知らないらしい。

>恐怖に負けたら終わりだ
>Just where is all that the ring means to Boromir?
このコメントはむずかしくて意味がわかりません、ハーブ様。
??指輪がボロミアにとって重要であるということは、一体全体どこへ行っちゃったんでしょう。

>ボロミア・・・
字幕翻訳家の戸田奈津子は短い文章でよくこのようなことをする。つまり文から一個の名詞を抜き出して、疑問符かまたは点々を加えるのだ。別の例は「ワン・リング・ネット」記事にある「警告は?」である。
これら二つの事例は彼女の手法の代表例である。

このような字幕は、言うまでもなく、観客にわずかな情報しか与えず、多くの混乱をもたらす。しかし多くの人々には、翻訳が悪いのであって、脚本そのものは悪くないということが、思いも寄らないのだ。

>フロドは発った。恥ずかしい。
ボロミアが、アラゴルンは自分より優れており、自分が屈した指輪の誘惑に耐えたと悟ったということが、これらの字幕では観客にわからない。

##
私はこれでいいです。
「時代」のコメントはむずかしいですね。
Evenstar様が、英語が母語の人なら当然わかる、というようなことをおっしゃっていたので、コメントなしでいきましょうか。
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906● Parth Galen 修正案[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 01:29
>恐怖に負けたら終わりだ
>Just where is all that the ring means to Boromir?
>このコメントはむずかしくて意味がわかりません、ハーブ様。
>??指輪がボロミアにとって重要であるということは、一体全体どこへ行っちゃったんでしょう。
白い都様の解釈でいいんですが、他からも分かりにくいと言われたのでこれは捨てて、#780白い都様案をベースに、より説明的にしてみました。

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Boromir:
[script] We're all afraid, Frodo, but to let that fear drive us to destroy what hope we have. Don't you see, it's madness.
[subtitle] We're all afraid, but if we are overcome by fear, all will be lost. Don't forget it.
comment:★To Boromir the ring is a gift, a powerful weapon that can be used against the Enemy as he said at the council. That has never left his mind and he cannot accept the idea that the ring should be destroyed. None of such thoughts of his is expressed in the subtitle.
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909● Re:新・誤訳リストの英語コメント[ Evenstar ] 2002 12/13 07:06
白い都さま、ハーブさま、お疲れさまです。
私も雑念を払いのけ、ガンガン飛ばしてまいります。脳が休止状態に入る前に手紙本文までもう1度熟稿したいので、変更についての注釈を端折ります。もしもご質問があれば、明日夕刻にきちんと時間をとってお答えする所存です。なお、コメントがプライオリティーであるというご指示に従い、コメントだけに言及しています。「ミス」に相当すると私が考える箇所は限られています。もしも変更してある場合、その主な理由は、主張が出きる限り 'to the point' になるように試みてみた、ということです。

-----------------------------------

> >Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (chapter 6)
> Gandalf:
> [script] There are some things that I must see to.
> [subtitle] I have my business.
> Frodo:
> [script] What things?
> [subtitle] What business?
> Gandalf:
> [script] Questions. Questions that need answering.
> [subtitle] Many things. I have to finish them.
> comment:★This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf the ring might be the One Ring, and the suspicion urges him to leave in a hurry. The subtitle fails to show the gravity of the situation.

comment: This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf for the first time that the ring might be the One Ring, and this suspicion prompts him to leave at once. Yet the subtitle fails to communicate the gravity of the situation.


> >>The Shadow of the Past (chapter 8)
> Gandalf:
> [script] But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
> [subtitle] But its power is too terrible to imagine.
> comment:★Viewers cannot see, reading only this translation, why the powerful wizard will not take the burden in stead of the little one. The ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great, and that is the very reason that no one but Frodo the Hobbit is to be the ring-bearer, the hero and the center of the whole story.

comment: In this translation, the wizard gives no helpful explanation as to why he himself refuses to shoulder the burden and makes the little one to do so in his stead. Here, the very reason that the ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great than to be kept in possession of an ordinary remains untouched.


> > >The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
> Boromir:
> [script] Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king.
> [subtitle] A king for Gondor? We do not need one.
> comment:These subtitles strongly give an impression that the word 'king' is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic that had never known kingship.

comment: These subtitles create a domineering impression that a 'king' or 'kingship' as a notion is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic.


These subtitles give
> > >The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
> Gandalf:
> [script] I will help you bear this burden, Frodo Baggins. As long as it is yours to bear.
> [subtitle] I will share the burden. I will be watching you.
> comment:★Again the subtitle misses the biggest point. The burden of the ring can not be shared. It is solely Frodo's.

comment: The subtitle utterly fails to illuminate the core issue here, that the burden of the ring-bearer belongs solely to him and that it cannot be shared.


> >>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
> Boromir:
> [script] If this is indeed the will of the council, then Gondor will see it done.
> [subtitle] If this is the decision of the council, Gondor will obey it.
> comment:★Boromir does not 'obey' the council here, he only concedes to it. He has not given up his argument yet that the ring can be a powerful weapon against the enemy, and this will lead to his tragedy at the climax.
> The subtitle makes Boromir a betrayer, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish purpose.

comment: Boromir does not 'obey' the council's decision, he only concedes to its will. Yet the subtitle conjurs an image as if Boromir has given up his argument to use the ring as a weapon against the enemy. As a result, he gets portrayed as a betrayer in the later stage of the film, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish scheme.

> > >A Journey in the Dark (chapter 28), The Road Goes Ever On...(chapter 39)
> Gandalf:
> [script] So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.
> [subtitle] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but you can't change it. What's more important for you is, to think what you should do at the moment.
> NOTE: Only the subtitle for the latter part of the first line has been changed.
> [subtitle in theater] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but it is too late to regret.

comment: The philosophical discussion gets denigrated down to a mere issue of street smartness.


> > > >Parth Galen (chapter 36)
> Frodo:
> [script] I know what you would say, and it would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart.
> [subtitle] Your words sound kind, but they mean warning to me.
> comment:★The subtitler does not seem to know that 'but for' is one thing and 'but' is quite another.

comment: The subtitler is wholly unfamiliar to the English usage of 'but for': a clear show case of mistranslation.


> > >Parth Galen (chapter 36)
> Boromir:
> [script] We're all afraid, Frodo, but to let that fear drive us to destroy what hope we have. Don't you see, it's madness.
> [subtitle] We're all afraid, but if we are overcome by fear, all will be lost. Don't forget it.
> comment:★Just where is all that the ring means to Boromir?

英文自体に問題はもちろんないのですが、このコメントで云わんとされるところが今一つ分かりかねます。

> > >Parth Galen (chapter 36)

このコメントについて、お勧めできるような変更はありません。

> > >The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
> Aragorn:
> [script] I let Frodo go.
> [subtitle] He has left.
> Boromir:
> [script] Then you did what I could not.
> [subtitle] I am ashamed.
> comment:With these subtitles the audience cannot see that Boromir recognizes Aragorn as his superior, nor that Aragorn resisted the ring's temptation to which Boromir had succumbed.

comment: Here, Boromir understands that Aragorn won over ring's temptation to which Boromir himself has succumed to, and as a result he recognizes Aragorn as his superior. Yet the subtitles do not introduce these trains of Boromir's thoughts and emotions.
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869● 修正英語コメント&リスト表題[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/12 02:14
8月の、PJ/NL宛の「もっとも酷い誤訳リスト」につけられていたコメントを、時制を中心に直したものです。修正箇所のマークはありませんが、内容や表現が変わったのは最後の二つと「人類(chapter38)」です。
#860と中身は同じ。これは「再英訳された誤訳字幕リストの前半部分」になりますので、表紙の案が最初にあります。←これは余計かもしれません、ご意見願います。

----------------------------------------------------

Examples of Mistranslations that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"

    Corrected and Uncorrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS

      (Re-translated into English)

      《注:ここまで文字サイズ大》



Here is the tip of the iceberg for you to scan through. See what damage
a subtitler can do to a film. The whole thing is also enclosed
in the form of thick volume of papers.

----------------------改頁------------------------------

  MISTRANSLATIONS IN THEATRICAL RELEASE
     LATER CORRECTED IN DVD/VHS
(from "The List of Most Serious Errors" sent to you in August)


>At the Signof the Prancing Pony (chapter12)
Barliman:
[script] Good evening, little Masters.
[subtitle] What are these shorties here for?
comment:The subtitle made Barliman too rude a landlord to offer any greetings to his guests, who looks down on Hobbits.

>The Council of Elrond (chapte23)
Boromir:
[script] Long has my father, the Steward of Gondor kept the forces of Mordor at bay. By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe.
[subtitle] My father who was the Steward of Gondor beat off the army of Mordor. By the blood of our people, he kept your lands safe.
comment:According to the subtitle, Boromir's father was already dead. Some of the audience who had read the original thought the story was changed by the director.

>The Bridge of Khazad-dum (chapter30)
Gandalf:
[script] I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor!
[subtitle] I am a servant of the Secret(Anor) Fire, the Creator of life!
comment:It is unbelievable. "Wielder of the flame" was eliminated, Anor was identified with Secret, and "the Creator of life" was made up by the translator.

>Lothlorien (chapter31)
Boromir:
[script] And the tower guard shall take up the call "The Lords of Gondor have returned."
[subtitle] And the tower guard will cry "The King of Gondor has returned."
comment:Boromir calls Aragorn his king only at his death. But the subtitle completely ignored this and spoiled the climax of the film.

>Farewell to Lorien (chapter34)
Galadriel:
[script] I give you the light of Earendil, our most beloved star.
[subtitle] I give you the light of Elendil.
comment:All the Tolkien readers among the audience were puzzled to find "Earendil" was changed to "Elendil", leaping over three thousand years.

>Parth Galen (chapter36)
Frodo:
[script] You are not yourself.
[subtitle] You are a liar!
comment:Frodo knows Boromir is now under the dominion of the ring, but the subtitle described Frodo as despising Boromir utterly. It settled the impression of Boromir for the audience as an ill-willed, dishonest man.

>Parth Galen (chapter36)
Frodo:
[script] Can you protect me from yourself? Would you destroy it?
[subtitle] Don't you need this? Can you destroy it?
comment:It looked as if Frodo were the tempter, not the ring.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter38)
Boromir:
[script] Our people. Our people.
[subtitle] Our species. Human beings.
comment:Boromir means the people of Minas Tirith, not the human race on earth as a whole. This subtitle does not lead to the next line of Aragorn, "I will not let the White City fall."

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter38)
Aragorn:
[script] I do not know what strength is in my blood. But I swear to you, I will not let the White City fall. Nor our people fail.
[subtitle] By the strength in my blood, I will protect our city, and save men from ruin.
comment:It was too bold of the translator to assume that Aragorn no longer expressed his doubts about his inheritance.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter38)
Boromir:
[script] I would have followed you, my brother. My captain. My king.
[subtitle] I feel regret, our brother. Our captain. Our king.
comment:After Boromir heard Aragorn's words "our people", he finally accepts Aragorn as the king. "My" is an important word because Boromir personally pledges allegiance to his uncrowned king. These subtitles obscured Boromir's feelings.

>The First Footage of "The Twe Towers"
Gandalf:
[script] Sauron is not so mighty yet that he is above fear.
[subtitle] Sauron is nothing for us to fear.
comment:This error reveales the translator's total lack of very basic knowledge of the story in addition to the very poor understanding of English language.

>The First Footage of "The Twe Towers"
Saruman:
[script] So Gandalf Greyhame thinks he has found the lost King of Gondor.
[subtitle] Did Gandalf find the lost Kingdom of Gondor?
comment:Another unprofessional mistake. One who does not know the difference between 'king' and 'kingdom' should not do the job.
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902● 形式・誤訳リストは表紙なし[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/12 21:57
1.誤訳リストは6枚しかないので、表紙を付けずにそのまま綴じます。
表紙で隠さないほうが、中身がそのまま目に入って、読んでもらえるかと思って。
字幕を再英訳したものであることは見ればわかると思うので書きませんでした(行数の間配りの関係)。

2.表題
長いので、that〜は改行して、「Examples of Mistranlation」を目立つように横倍角で印刷します。
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870● 手紙 【最終稿】修正+同封資料リスト[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/12 02:17
決定稿と称する確信が持てないので、またしても【最終稿】ですみません。
修正箇所の印はつけませんでした、新たな目でご覧下さい。決定稿ではカッコの数字を外します。
手紙の末尾に封入資料の目録がつきました。

--------------------------------
Dear Messrs. Shaye and Lynne,
(0)
We are writing to you to discuss the problematic Japanese subtitles for your film trilogy "The Lord of the Rings".
(1)
We belong to‘the movement for proper subtitles on LotR’. Our wish is shared by many. The movement produced a petition and sent it to you in August, and another petition is now ongoing. We hope they were successful in winning your attention, and we sincerely ask for your assistance on this matter.
(2)
You may already realize that "The Fellowship of the Ring (FotR)" fared so much worse than "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" at the box office only in Japan as CNN reported: "The whole worldwide difference last time was accounted for by Japan." (2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/21/potter.rings/)
We agree to this conclusion, but not to the analysis of its cause.
(3)
Many of Japanese audience were unsatisfied with FotR because “The story and the way the characters were portrayed didn't make sense, and worst of all,I was frustrated by the way it ended.”
Nowhere else in the world could you find such reactions to the great epic film of yours. Your distributor in Japan did not even provide such basic information as FotR being first of the three installments: "trilogy" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" were completely eliminated in the trailer for FotR. You can surely imagine how misleading it was to a number of audience who had not read Tolkien.
(4)
But we are convinced that the failure was mainly due to the terrible translations in Japanese subtitles which totally destroyed the original script. All of the Japanese subtitles on FotR were transcribed by some fans in theaters, then compiled as a single list on the Web and re-checked. We are enclosing it to substantiate our argument, to point out exactly what was wrong by comparing every line with that of the original script.
(5)
Our strong protest bore fruit, and Nippon Herald Films Inc.,the Japanese distributer, announced in June that they requested a translator of Tolkien's books and their publisher to become the advisors for the future subtitle-making, although this by no means guaranteed the advisors' authority over the subtitler.
As a result, some of the errors were corrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS released in Japan on September 21st. The evaluation on this revision vary among the fans, but at least "The Most Serious Errors" which list we sent you in August, were all repaired except for two lines.
In our opinion, there still remain a considerable number of bad translations, so we made "A List of Mistranslations in DVD/VHS", though inadequate it may be. The list is attached at the end of this letter.
(6)
All the statements made by the subtitler and the Japanese distributor and the way they have been handling this issue so far do nothing but make us very anxious about the quality of subtitles in the coming film "The Two Towers(TTT)".The subtitles in the trailer for TTT released on October 18th in the official Japanese movie website have confirmed our fear. For your information, we enclose an article from TheOneRing.net.
(7)
We request that you take some action in this matter. Could you consider appointing an agent whose knowledge in Japanese language and whose judgement you can trust, to be involved in the subtitle-making and supervise the whole process? Is it also possible that he/she examines the subtitles on FotR theatrical release (the papers enclosed), and also check up and evaluate the Japanese trailer for TTT available on the Japanese official movie website?

(8)
Contemplating the affair in its entirety, we have enough reasons to believe that it is against your interest to leave the issue of subtitle-making to the Japanese distributor and expect them to do their job. They failed you as your business partner last time. And they have not come up with any concrete solutions to the problem, let alone showing any signs to recognize its magnitude. We all dearly hope for a success of the next two installments of the trilogy in Japan, a success they naturally deserve.

Sincerely yours,

(代表者手書き署名)

(連名者住所・氏名)

----------------------改頁----------------------------
Enclosures

(1)Japanese Subtitles in "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring"
As seen in theaters, released on February 23nd, 2002 [Japanese]

(2)Examples of Mistranslations that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"
Corrected and Uncorrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS [English]

(3)"The Two Towers" trailer on the Japanese oficial movie website
released on Octover 18th, 2002 [Japanese]

(4)The One Ring. net −News for Oct. 25, 2002 [English]


*Japanese official movie website
http://www.lotr.jp/
**Japanese trailer for TTT
http://www.lotr.jp/two_towers/teasers/tt_teaser1.html

------------------------------------

1.ハーブ個人は、URLを手紙文面中、特に最終段落の直前に入れるのは文の(主張の)流れを妨げると思うので、同封資料一覧のほうにくっつけてみました。これは提案に過ぎません。判断は白い都様にお任せします。

2.同封資料一覧の順序ですが、私なら
★英語で読める誤訳リスト→英語で読めるThe One Ring. net記事→日本語資料、としますが。これも判断は任せます。
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871● 同封資料リストのスペルミス申告[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/12 02:31
すみません。他人様に指摘されるのは恥ずかしいので、先に自主申告しておきます。今後はワープロソフトのスペルチェックをかけるようにいたします。

>Enclosures
>(3)"The Two Towers" trailer on the Japanese oficial movie website
released on Octover 18th, 2002 [Japanese]
oficial→official
Octover→October
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907● 手紙文のスペルミス申告[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 01:40
白い都様が印刷の際にチェックしてくださるだろうとは思いつつ。

#870の手紙文に含まれているミス
(1) We belong to‘the movement...LotR’.  半角全角スペースのミス。
(3) and worst of all,I was  コンマあとのスペース
(5) Nippon Herald Films Inc.,the  同上
  distributer ⇒ distributor
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908● 手紙本文の現状[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/13 02:34
手紙本文は連名を入れて全5枚になりそうです。
40字×38行にして、3頁目に本文がかかるようにしました。
Enclosuresは私の趣味で、言及される順に並べました。書証みたいなものだから。まあ最初は読めるものだけ読んでくれたら上等。

残された作業は、手紙本文と誤訳リストの印刷です。
13日の昼間は作業ができません。17時の時点で英語板を確認をしてから印刷します。

######
Dear Messrs. Shaye and Lynne,


We are writing to you to discuss the problematic Japanese subtitles for your film trilogy "The Lord of the Rings".
We belong to 'the movement for proper subtitles on LotR'. Our wish is shared by many. The movement produced a petition and sent it to you in August, and another petition is now ongoing. We hope they were successful in winning your attention, and we sincerely ask for your assistance on this matter.

You may already realize that "The Fellowship of the Ring (FotR)" fared so much worse than "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" at the box office only in Japan as CNN reported: "The whole worldwide difference last time was accounted for by Japan."
(2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/21/potter.rings/)
We agree to this conclusion, but not to the analysis of its cause.

Many of Japanese audience were unsatisfied with FotR because "The story and the way the characters were portrayed didn't make sense, and worst of all, I was frustrated by the way it ended."
Nowhere else in the world could you find such reactions to the great epic film of yours. Your distributor in Japan did not even provide such basic information as FotR being first of the three installments: "trilogy" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" were completely eliminated in the trailer for FotR. You can surely imagine how misleading it was to a number of audience who had not read Tolkien.

But we are convinced that the failure was mainly due to the terrible translations in Japanese subtitles which totally destroyed the original script. All of the Japanese subtitles on FotR were transcribed by some fans in theaters, then compiled as a single list on the Web and re-checked. We are enclosing it to substantiate our argument, to point out exactly what was wrong by comparing every line with that of the original script.


Our strong protest bore fruit, and Nippon Herald Films Inc.,the Japanese distributor, announced in June that they requested a translator of Tolkien's books and their publisher to become the advisors for the future subtitle-making, although this by no means guaranteed the advisors' authority over the subtitler.
As a result, some of the errors were corrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS released in Japan on September 21st. The evaluation on this revision vary among the fans, but at least "The Most Serious Errors" which list we sent you in August, were all repaired except for two lines.
In our opinion, there still remain a considerable number of bad translations, so we made "A List of Mistranslations in DVD/VHS", though inadequate it may be. The list is attached at the end of this letter.

All the statements made by the subtitler and the Japanese distributor and the way they have been handling this issue so far do nothing but make us very anxious about the quality of subtitles in the coming film "The Two Towers(TTT)". The subtitles in the trailer for TTT released on October 18th in the official Japanese movie website have confirmed our fear. For your information, we enclose an article from TheOneRing.net.

We request that you take some action in this matter. Could you consider appointing an agent whose knowledge in Japanese language and whose judgement you can trust, to be involved in the subtitle-making and supervise the whole process? Is it also possible that he/she examines the subtitles on FotR theatrical release (the papers enclosed), and also check up and evaluate the Japanese trailer for TTT available on the Japanese official movie website?

Contemplating the affair in its entirety, we have enough reasons to believe that it is against your interest to leave the issue of subtitle-making to the Japanese distributor and expect them to do their job. They failed you as your business partner last time. And they have not come up with any concrete solutions to the problem, let alone showing any signs to recognize its magnitude.
------------- 3枚目 --------------------------------
We all dearly hope for a success of the next two installments of the trilogy in Japan, a success they naturally deserve.


Sincerely yours,

(代表者署名)

(連名者住所氏名)


------------ 4枚目 --------------------------------
Enclosures

(1)Japanese Subtitles in "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring"
As seen in theaters, released on February 23nd, 2002 [Japanese]

(2)Examples of Mistranslations that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"
Corrected and Uncorrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS [English]

(3)"The Two Towers" trailer on the Japanese official movie website
released on October 18th, 2002 [Japanese]

(4)The One Ring. net −News for Oct. 25, 2002 [English]


*Japanese official movie website
http://www.lotr.jp/
**Japanese trailer for TTT
http://www.lotr.jp/two_towers/teasers/tt_teaser1.html

----------- 5枚目 --------------------------------------
P.S. We have just seen this news on TheOneRing.net.
The Japanese distributor has not made any comment on it so far, but if it is true, we will be certainly relieved. Please see to it that PJ's word will be realized and good subtitles will be on TTT and RotK.


The One Ring. net −12-11-02 Latest News
(http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1039629520)
Good News For Japanese Ringers!
Xoanon @ 12:58 pm EST

Ataahua writes: Peter Jackson has confirmed that the Japanese translations of TTT will be a lot better than they were for FOTR. PJ was interviewed by TVNZ before the TT premier in Paris, during which he commented that there had been a lot of complaints from Japanese fans about the quality of the dialogue translations for FOTR.

"They said that whoever did the translation obviously didn't know the subject and was making big mistakes, and they asked that this person not do the translations for The Two Towers - and that's what we've done. We've got someone else to do the Japanese translations this time around."
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912● P.S.について[ Evenstar ] 2002 12/13 08:35
字幕作家交替のニュース、あまりに夢のようで、思考がまとまらず難儀しています。(;^^) 実は私も、このニュースを知ってすぐ「ポストスクリプトだ!」と叫びました。その後こちらをロムして、「やはり皆さん考えることは同じ。」とにんまり。

もしもこのお手紙がPJ本人宛てだったら、すぐにも裏を取るために事実確認を要請する文面をしたためていたでしょう。NL宛てでも、せめて事実かどうかを裏付けてくれるよう願えないかと思うのですが。とにかくPJプラス二人の脚本陣に、「本当でしょうか?お伺い」の手紙を書き送る所存です。とりあえず、今回のポストスクリプトを下のように練りなおしてみました。白い都さまのご意向に沿わないものであれば、もちろん却下で結構です。


> Please see to it that PJ's word will be realized and good subtitles will be on TTT and RotK.

(やや「お達し」であるかのようなトーンに傾きます。次のような文を作ってみました。ご再考いただければ幸です。)

We have just seen this news on TheOneRing.net.
The Japanese distributor has not made any comment on it so far, but if it is true, we will be certainly relieved, and naturally imagine that you endorse the plan PJ has introduced. We have so far been unable to find the source, so we will be very greatful if you could confirm the validity of this news.
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917● ありがとうございました[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 15:15
#909と#912、まとめてになりますが、
Evenstar 様、本当に最後までありがとうございました!
よくここまでおつきあい下さいました。m( _ _ )m ただもう感謝あるのみでございます。

P.S.については、例によって全面採用させていただき、コメントのほうは#916で選択を一覧にしておきました。ご多忙お疲れでしょうし、もう修正が利かないので、どうぞお捨て置きくださって結構です。

>字幕作家交替のニュース、あまりに夢のようで、思考がまとまらず難儀しています。(;^^) 
>とにかくPJプラス二人の脚本陣に、「本当でしょうか?お伺い」の手紙を書き送る所存です。
ああ、そうしていただければ。お願いするまでもないですが反応があったら是非お知らせ下さい。私もTORNにメールした中で、「誰だか知りたい、どうすればわかるだろう」とは書いておきましたけれど。
---------------------------
それにつけても。
達意のとまではいかなくても、せめて直さねばならぬ箇所のない英文を、自分が日本語を書く時くらいの出来と労力で書く力がありさえしたら、これほど何人もの方にご面倒をかけることもクライアント様(?)を働かせたり待たせたりすることもなかったのに。

そう思わないことはないですが、でも力不足のゆえにお寄せいただいたご助力、応援と励ましのお言葉。私が手が回らずにいればSEEの英語も字幕も吹き替えも書き取りアップから検証スタートまで、チームを組んでやって下さる強力メンバーの新規ご参加。そういう本当に心が暖かくなって嬉しさがじわっとあふれてくるような思いを味わえました。自分に望むだけの力があったら、こんな貴重な出会いはなかったかもしれないと思えば、今しばし、心静かな休息を味わうことも許されるであろう。

すでに日本語がヘンですが (^^;) 、ともあれ、ありがとうございました。Evenstar 様にも皆様にも、良いクリスマスを!
(これなら「良いお年を」と違って気が早過ぎるわけではないんですよー)
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911● Re:手紙 【最終稿】修正+同封資料リスト[ Evenstar ] 2002 12/13 07:42
大きな変更のお勧めはありません。


--------------------------------

> (2)
> You may already realize that "The Fellowship of the Ring (FotR)" fared so much worse than "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" at the box office only in Japan as CNN reported: "The whole worldwide difference last time was accounted for by Japan."

You may already realize that only in Japan did "The Fellowship of the Ring (FotR") fare so much worse than "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" at the box office....


> (3)
>"trilogy" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" were completely eliminated in the trailer for FotR.

they completly eliminated "trilogy" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" from the FotR trailer.


(5)
> In our opinion, there still remain a considerable number of bad translations, so we made "A List of Mistranslations in DVD/VHS", though inadequate it may be. The list is attached at the end of this letter.

, so this time we made "A List of....


> (7)
>Could you consider appointing an agent whose knowledge in Japanese language and whose judgement you can trust, to be involved in the subtitle-making and supervise the whole process?

Could you please consider...(このほうが、「可能性の打診」ではなく「要望」であるというトーンが出ますので。)


>Is it also possible that he/she examines the subtitles on FotR theatrical release (the papers enclosed), and also check up and evaluate the Japanese trailer for TTT available on the Japanese official movie website?

It is also advisable that he/she examines... (これも「攻めの姿勢」の一端として)


> >(8)
> Contemplating the affair in its entirety, we have enough reasons to believe that it is against your interest to leave the issue of subtitle-making to the Japanese distributor and expect them to do their job. They failed you as your business partner last time. And they have not come up with any concrete solutions to the problem, let alone showing any signs to recognize its magnitude. We all dearly hope for a success of the next two installments of the trilogy in Japan, a success they naturally deserve.

(このままだとやや締めとして落ちつかないので、次の文をこのパラグラフの最後に追加してはどうでしょうか。)
The quality of subtitles will play a decisive role in bringing this about, as well as your interest in this matter.
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913● 【連絡】完成稿は午後のうちに[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 11:17
午前10時締め切りのつもりでいましたが#867で

>13日の昼間は作業ができません。17時の時点で英語板を確認をしてから印刷します。

との書き込みを見てほっとしたら、それを見すましたかのようにちょうど急用が入ってしまいまして、今から作業にかかります。ありがたいことにEvenstar 様がたくさんのブラッシュアップを施してくださいましたので、もう安心。焦らずにミスのないようにして、この発言につける形で完成稿をアップしていきます。遅くとも15時にはすべて完了予定ですが、それでだいじょうぶですよね>白い都様
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914● 【完成稿】NL社宛手紙文[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 11:42

Dear Messrs. Shaye and Lynne,


We are writing to you to discuss the problematic Japanese subtitles for your film trilogy "The Lord of the Rings".
We belong to 'the movement for proper subtitles on LotR'. Our wish is shared by many. The movement produced a petition and sent it to you in August, and another petition is now ongoing. We hope they were successful in winning your attention, and we sincerely ask for your assistance on this matter.

You may already realize that only in Japan did "The Fellowship of the Ring (FotR") fare so much worse than "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" at the box office as CNN reported: "The whole worldwide difference last time was accounted for by Japan."
(2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/21/potter.rings/)
We agree to this conclusion, but not to the analysis of its cause.

Many of Japanese audience were unsatisfied with FotR because "The story and the way the characters were portrayed didn't make sense, and worst of all, I was frustrated by the way it ended."
Nowhere else in the world could you find such reactions to the great epic film of yours. Your distributor in Japan did not even provide such basic information as FotR being first of the three installments: they completly eliminated "trilogy" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" from the FotR trailer. You can surely imagine how misleading it was to a number of audience who had not read Tolkien.

But we are convinced that the failure was mainly due to the terrible translations in Japanese subtitles which totally destroyed the original script. All of the Japanese subtitles on FotR were transcribed by some fans in theaters, then compiled as a single list on the Web and re-checked. We are enclosing it to substantiate our argument, to point out exactly what was wrong by comparing every line with that of the original script.


Our strong protest bore fruit, and Nippon Herald Films Inc.,the Japanese distributor, announced in June that they requested a translator of Tolkien's books and their publisher to become the advisors for the future subtitle-making, although this by no means guaranteed the advisors' authority over the subtitler.
As a result, some of the errors were corrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS released in Japan on September 21st. The evaluation on this revision vary among the fans, but at least "The Most Serious Errors" which list we sent you in August, were all repaired except for two lines.
In our opinion, there still remain a considerable number of bad translations, so this time we made "A List of Mistranslations in DVD/VHS", though inadequate it may be. The list is attached at the end of this letter.

All the statements made by the subtitler and the Japanese distributor and the way they have been handling this issue so far do nothing but make us very anxious about the quality of subtitles in the coming film "The Two Towers(TTT)". The subtitles in the trailer for TTT released on October 18th in the official Japanese movie website have confirmed our fear. For your information, we enclose an article from TheOneRing.net.

We request that you take some action in this matter. Could you please consider appointing an agent whose knowledge in Japanese language and whose judgement you can trust, to be involved in the subtitle-making and supervise the whole process? It is also advisable that he/she examines the subtitles on FotR theatrical release (the papers enclosed), and also check up and evaluate the Japanese trailer for TTT available on the Japanese official movie website.

Contemplating the affair in its entirety, we have enough reasons to believe that it is against your interest to leave the issue of subtitle-making to the Japanese distributor and expect them to do their job. They failed you as your business partner last time. And they have not come up with any concrete solutions to the problem, let alone showing any signs to recognize its magnitude.

------------- 3枚目 --------------------------------
We all dearly hope for a success of the next two installments of the trilogy in Japan, a success they naturally deserve. The quality of subtitles will play a decisive role in bringing this about, as well as your interest in this matter.


Sincerely yours,

(代表者署名)

(連名者住所氏名)


------------ 4枚目 --------------------------------
Enclosures

(1)Japanese Subtitles in "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring"
As seen in theaters, released on February 23nd, 2002 [Japanese]

(2)Examples of Mistranslations that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"
Corrected and Uncorrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS [English]

(3)"The Two Towers" trailer on the Japanese official movie website
released on October 18th, 2002 [Japanese]

(4)The One Ring. net −News for Oct. 25, 2002 [English]


*Japanese official movie website
http://www.lotr.jp/
**Japanese trailer for TTT
http://www.lotr.jp/two_towers/teasers/tt_teaser1.html

----------- 5枚目 --------------------------------------
P.S. We have just seen this news on TheOneRing.net.
The Japanese distributor has not made any comment on it so far, but if it is true, we will be certainly relieved, and naturally imagine that you endorse the plan PJ has introduced. We have so far been unable to find the source, so we will be very greatful if you could confirm the validity of this news.


The One Ring. net −12-11-02 Latest News
(http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1039629520)
Good News For Japanese Ringers!
Xoanon @ 12:58 pm EST

Ataahua writes: Peter Jackson has confirmed that the Japanese translations of TTT will be a lot better than they were for FOTR. PJ was interviewed by TVNZ before the TT premier in Paris, during which he commented that there had been a lot of complaints from Japanese fans about the quality of the dialogue translations for FOTR.

"They said that whoever did the translation obviously didn't know the subject and was making big mistakes, and they asked that this person not do the translations for The Two Towers - and that's what we've done. We've got someone else to do the Japanese translations this time around."

--------------------------------
★4枚目と5枚目は入れ替わるべきではないですか? 今回のP.S.の重要性を考えるとその方がいいように私には思えますが。
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915● 【決定稿】誤訳リスト[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 14:28
#914とのタイトルの差は、こちらは【完成】と言い切れる出来ではないという個人的感情によるもので、たいした意味はありません m( _ _ )m

----------------------------------------------------

      EXAMPLES OF MISTRANSLATIONS
  that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"

    Corrected and Uncorrected in DVD(2-disk)/VHS
      (Re-translated into English)




  Mistranslations in Theatrical Release
     Later Corrected in DVD/VHS
(from "The List of Most Serious Errors" sent to you in August)

>At the Sign of the Prancing Pony (chapter 12)
Barliman:
[script] Good evening, little Masters.
[subtitle] What are these shorties here for?
comment:The subtitle made Barliman too rude a landlord to offer any greetings to his guests, who looks down on Hobbits.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Boromir:
[script] Long has my father, the Steward of Gondor kept the forces of Mordor at bay. By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe.
[subtitle] My father who was the Steward of Gondor beat off the army of Mordor. By the blood of our people, he kept your lands safe.
comment:According to the subtitle, Boromir's father was already dead. Some of the audience who had read the original thought the story was changed by the director.

>The Bridge of Khazad-dum (chapter 30)
Gandalf:
[script] I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor!
[subtitle] I am a servant of the Secret(Anor) Fire, the Creator of life!
comment:It is unbelievable. "Wielder of the flame" was eliminated, Anor was identified with Secret, and "the Creator of life" was made up by the translator.
>Lothlorien (chapter 31)
Boromir:
[script] And the tower guard shall take up the call "The Lords of Gondor have returned."
[subtitle] And the tower guard will cry "The King of Gondor has returned."
comment:Boromir calls Aragorn his king only at his death. But the subtitle completely ignored this and spoiled the climax of the film.

>Farewell to Lorien (chapter 34)
Galadriel:
[script] I give you the light of Earendil, our most beloved star.
[subtitle] I give you the light of Elendil.
comment:All the Tolkien readers among the audience were puzzled to find "Earendil" was changed to "Elendil", leaping over three thousand years.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] You are not yourself.
[subtitle] You are a liar!
comment:Frodo knows Boromir is now under the dominion of the ring, but the subtitle described Frodo as despising Boromir utterly. It settled the impression of Boromir for the audience as an ill-willed, dishonest man.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] Can you protect me from yourself? Would you destroy it?
[subtitle] Don't you need this? Can you destroy it?
comment:It looked as if Frodo were the tempter, not the ring.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
Boromir:
[script] Our people. Our people.
[subtitle] Our species. Human beings.
comment:Boromir means the people of Minas Tirith, not the human race on earth as a whole. This subtitle does not lead to the next line of Aragorn, "I will not let the White City fall."

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
Aragorn:
[script] I do not know what strength is in my blood. But I swear to you, I will not let the White City fall. Nor our people fail.
[subtitle] By the strength in my blood, I will protect our city, and save men from ruin.
comment:It was too bold of the translator to assume that Aragorn no longer expressed his doubts about his inheritance.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
Boromir:
[script] I would have followed you, my brother. My captain. My king.
[subtitle] I feel regret, our brother. Our captain. Our king.
comment:After Boromir heard Aragorn's words "our people", he finally accepts Aragorn as the king. "My" is an important word because Boromir personally pledges allegiance to his uncrowned king. These subtitles obscured Boromir's feelings.

>The First Footage of "The Twe Towers"
Gandalf:
[script] Sauron is not so mighty yet that he is above fear.
[subtitle] Sauron is nothing for us to fear.
comment:This error reveales the translator's total lack of very basic knowledge of the story in addition to the very poor understanding of English language.

>The First Footage of "The Twe Towers"
Saruman:
[script] So Gandalf Greyhame thinks he has found the lost King of Gondor.
[subtitle] Did Gandalf find the lost Kingdom of Gondor?
comment:Another unprofessional mistake. One who does not know the difference between 'king' and 'kingdom' should not do the job.


EXAMPLES OF BAD TRANSLATIONS IN DVD(2-disk)/VHS
     (Remaining Uncorrected)


>Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (chapter 6)
Gandalf:
[script] There are some things that I must see to.
[subtitle] I have my business.
Frodo:
[script] What things?
[subtitle] What business?
Gandalf:
[script] Questions. Questions that need answering.
[subtitle] Many things. I have to finish them.
comment:This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf for the first time that the ring might be the One Ring, and this suspicion urges him to leave at once. Yet the subtitles fail to communicate the gravity of the situation.

>The Shadow of the Past (chapter 8)
Gandalf:
[script] But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
[subtitle] But its power is too terrible to imagine.
comment: This translation gives no helpful explanation as to why the powerful wizard refuses to shoulder the burden in stead of the little one. The ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great, and this is what sets Frodo, not a great warrior nor a wiseman, at the center of the story.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Boromir:
[script] Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king.
[subtitle] A king for Gondor? We do not need one.
comment:These subtitles create a domineering impression that a 'king' or 'kingship' as a notion is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Gandalf:
[script] I will help you bear this burden, Frodo Baggins. As long as it is yours to bear.
[subtitle] I will share the burden. I will be watching you.
comment:The subtitle utterly fails to illuminate the core issue here, that the burden of the ring-bearer belongs solely to Frodo and that it cannot be shared.
>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)
Boromir:
[script] If this is indeed the will of the council, then Gondor will see it done.
[subtitle] If this is the decision of the council, Gondor will obey it.
comment:Boromir does not 'obey' the council's decision, he only concedes to its will. Yet the subtitle conjurs an image as if Boromir has given up his argument altogether. As a result, he gets portrayed as a betrayer in the later stage of the film, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish scheme.

>A Journey in the Dark (chapter 28), The Road Goes Ever On...(chapter 39)
Gandalf:
[script] So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.
[subtitle] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but you can't change it. What's more important for you is, to think what you should do at the moment.
NOTE: Only the subtitle for the latter part of the first line has been changed.
[subtitle in theater] Everyone feels that way when he's having a hard time, but it is too late to regret.
comment: The philosophical discussion gets denigrated down to a mere issue of street smartness.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] I know what you would say, and it would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart.
[subtitle] Your words sound kind, but they mean warning to me.
comment:The subtitler does not seem to know that 'but for' is one thing and 'but' is quite another.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Boromir:
[script] We're all afraid, Frodo, but to let that fear drive us to destroy what hope we have. Don't you see, it's madness.
[subtitle] We're all afraid, but if we are overcome by fear, all will be lost. Don't forget it.
comment:To Boromir the ring is a gift, a powerful weapon that can be used against the Enemy as he said at the council. That has never left his mind and he cannot accept the idea that the ring should be destroyed. None of such thoughts of his is expressed in the subtitle.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)
Frodo:
[script] It has taken Boromir.
[subtitle] Boromir....
comment:The subtitler, Natsuko Toda, often does this with short sentences: She takes one single noun out of the line and adds a question mark, or else three dots. Another example is in the article of TheOneRing.Net: "Warning?"
These two cases are representative of this style of hers.
Such subtitles, needless to say, give audience little information and much confusion. But it does not occur to many that the fault is in the translation and not in the script itself.

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38)
Aragorn:
[script] I let Frodo go.
[subtitle] He has left.
Boromir:
[script] Then you did what I could not.
[subtitle] I am ashamed.
comment:Here, Boromir understands that Aragorn won over ring's temptation to which Boromir himself has succumed to, and as a result he recognizes Aragorn as his superior. Yet the subtitles do not introduce these trains of Boromir's thoughts and emotions.
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916● 誤訳リスト選択解説[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 14:30
誤訳リストのコメントに関する覚書のようなものです。
・旧版改正
8月に「誤訳リスト」作成した時には合議で、ハーブにははっきりした主導権がありませんでしたし、遠慮もまだあって、納得のいくものばかりではなかったのでした。でもすでに同じ相手に送っているものですから、変更は最小限にとどめました。(時制は公開中と公開終了後の違いによる。内容変更については、#837末尾から847、852が『人類』。#853、854『ゴンドール廃墟』関連)

・急ぎ新版
フィリパさん宛にはコメントはいらなくても、NL宛には必要、と随分前から言われていながら、ぎりぎりのやっつけ仕事になって申し訳なかったです。でも、いったんは「出来ませんっ!」と言っていたことを考えると、そして特に Evenstar 様がほとんどについて手直し案を下さったので、ずっと気が楽になりました。決定稿の多くは Evenstar 様案を使わせていただいていますが、再確認を兼ねて報告と私見など。もう終わってしまったので、後悔先に立たずではありますが、ここはやっぱり拙かった、という点があればご指摘下さい。(あと一日あったらなあ、と毎度ながら思うことしきり)
------------------------------------------

>Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (chapter 6)「用事がある。片付けねば」
ハーブ案:This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf the ring might be the One Ring, and the suspicion urges him to leave in a hurry. The subtitle fails to show the gravity of the situation.

Evenstar 様案: This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf for the first time that the ring might be the One Ring, and this suspicion prompts him to leave at once. Yet the subtitle fails to communicate the gravity of the situation.

決定稿:This is the scene where it occurs to Gandalf for the first time that the ring might be the One Ring, and this suspicion urges him to leave at once. Yet the subtitles fail to communicate the gravity of the situation.
(こういう特定箇所の数ラインの時は、いつも the subtitle が単数か複数か悩みます。

>The Shadow of the Past (chapter 8) 指輪の力
★ここだけは悩んだ挙句、どちらでもないものになりました。
ハーブ案:Viewers cannot see, reading only this translation, why the powerful wizard will not take the burden in stead of the little one. The ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great, and that is the very reason that no one but Frodo the Hobbit is to be the ring-bearer, the hero and the center of the whole story.

Evenstar 様案: In this translation, the wizard gives no helpful explanation as to why he himself refuses to shoulder the burden and makes the little one to do so in his stead. Here, the very reason that the ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great than to be kept in possession of an ordinary remains untouched.

決定稿:This translation gives no helpful explanation as to why the powerful wizard refuses to shoulder the burden in stead of the little one. The ring is all the more terrible in the hand of the great, and this is what sets Frodo, not a great warrior nor a wiseman, at the center of the story.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)「ゴンドールの王だと?」
ハーブ案:These subtitles strongly give an impression that the word 'king' is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic that had never known kingship.

Evenstar 様案=決定稿:These subtitles create a domineering impression that a 'king' or 'kingship' as a notion is quite unfamiliar to Boromir, as if Gondor were a republic.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)「重荷を分かち合おう」
ハーブ案:Again the subtitle misses the biggest point. The burden of the ring can not be shared. It is solely Frodo's.

Evenstar 様案=決定稿:The subtitle utterly fails to illuminate the core issue here, that the burden of the ring-bearer belongs solely to him and that it cannot be shared.

>The Council of Elrond (chapter 23)「ゴンドールは従う」
ハーブ案:Boromir does not 'obey' the council here, he only concedes to it. He has not given up his argument yet that the ring can be a powerful weapon against the enemy, and this will lead to his tragedy at the climax.
> The subtitle makes Boromir a betrayer, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish purpose.

Evenstar 様案: Boromir does not 'obey' the council's decision, he only concedes to its will. Yet the subtitle conjurs an image as if Boromir has given up his argument to use the ring as a weapon against the enemy. As a result, he gets portrayed as a betrayer in the later stage of the film, who once obeyed and then turns to his own selfish scheme.

決定稿:Evenstar 様案のうち、
>given up his argument to use the ring as a weapon against the enemy.
⇒given up his argument altogether.
これは、「恐怖に負けたら終わりだ」のコメントと完全に重なる部分をカット変更。

>A Journey in the Dark (chapter 28), The Road Goes Ever On...(chapter 39)
ハーブ案:(なし)
Evenstar 様案=決定稿:The philosophical discussion gets denigrated down to a mere issue of street smartness.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)「警告に思える」
ハーブ案=決定稿:The subtitler does not seem to know that 'but for' is one thing and 'but' is quite another.

Evenstar 様案:The subtitler is wholly unfamiliar to the English usage of 'but for': a clear show case of mistranslation.

>Parth Galen (chapter 36)「恐怖に負けたら終わりだ」

ハーブ案全面書き直し:To Boromir the ring is a gift, a powerful weapon that can be used against the Enemy as he said at the council. That has never left his mind and he cannot accept the idea that the ring should be destroyed. None of such thoughts of his is expressed in the subtitle.
⇒Evenstar 様のチェックなしで自動的に決定稿。

>The Departure of Boromir (chapter 38) フロドは発った。恥ずかしい。
8月案:With these subtitles the audience cannot see that Boromir recognizes Aragorn as his superior, nor that Aragorn resisted the ring's temptation to which Boromir had succumbed.

Evenstar 様案=決定稿:Here, Boromir understands that Aragorn won over ring's temptation to which Boromir himself has succumed to, and as a result he recognizes Aragorn as his superior. Yet the subtitles do not introduce these trains of Boromir's thoughts and emotions.
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918● 【緊急!】OurPeopleとWhiteCityの順序逆[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/13 19:57
問題発生です。

決定稿(915)で、前半(直ったリスト)の次の箇所が脚本の台詞順序と逆でした。
正しい順序は
1)アラゴルン:白き都は落とさせない、我らが民を滅ぼさせはしない
2)ボロミア:我らが民・・我らが民・・・

そうすると、Our Peopleのコメント後半部は具合が悪い。
>This subtitle does not lead to the next line of Aragorn, "I will not let the White City fall."
next lineではないのです。(←なんで昨日のうちに気づかなかったよ、くぬぅう〜自分スカタン)

受動態にするとか?
This subtitle is not led by the before line of Aragorn, "I will not let the White City fall."
この字幕は前のアラゴルンの台詞からは導かれない。
インパクトが弱いように思うが。

何か良い代案はありませんか。
返信お待ちします。
とりあえず、他の部分を修正しながら、10分おきに画面を見ています。
手紙本文は印刷出来。ご指摘どおりにPSはEnclosuresの前に入れました。
なお、郵便局は終夜営業なので大丈夫です。
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919● Re:【緊急!】しまった、時間延長願い[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 21:10
わーっ!
ほんとうにすみません!なんという事だろう。信じられないミスとはこのことだ。
とうろたえてばかりはいられないので、深呼吸して、事後処理について最低限の判断とお願いをします。

・今の時刻を考えると、やはりもう一晩置くしかないか。置きたい。明日午前でお願いしたい。です。
・ご指摘の問題の代案には最低1時間、下手すると数時間かかります。(パソコンに向かえない時間帯だった/である)
★ネイティヴチェックでかなり根本的な指摘があったので,とりあえずそれも問題提起してご検討に供したいです。

取り急ぎ。引き続き投稿予定。(一時間後?)
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920● 発送明日。午前10時締め[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/13 21:33
1.発送は明日午前に延期します。
本文修正が入りました。
レター用紙がもうない★ 文具屋は終夜営業ではなかった・・・けちくさいことせずにどんと買っておくべきでした。不手際で申し訳ありません。

2.ハーブさま、誤訳コメントの修正(918)とあわせて、よろしくお願いいたします。
締めは明日午前10時です。(午後から所用で出かけるため、午前中に仕上げて投函しなければなりません。)

3.スペルチェックかけました。
手紙本文
(3)they completly〜 → completely

誤訳リスト
>サウロン恐るに足りず
reveales → reveals

>ゴンドールは従う
conjurs → conjures

あと、
>指輪の力
wiseman
私のワープロソフトのチェックはなかなか厳しくて、wise man にせよと言うのですよ。

誤訳リストの表題
>Examples of Mistranslations that Distorted "The Fellowship of the Ring"
thatは大文字で始めたほうがいいのではないでしょうか。(同封リストのほうも)

そんなわけで、今日は店仕舞い、家へ帰ります。
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922● 言い忘れ・行動予定[ 白い都 ] 2002 12/13 21:44
「店仕舞い」とは文字通り、店のほうをクローズするという意味で、自宅へ帰ってからもう一度パソコンを見ます。
ちなみに、私のメアドは自宅のほうで、明朝は9時まで見ることができます。
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921● 暫定訂正案「種族」[ ハーブ ] 2002 12/13 21:42
終わったと思った途端に大きい問題が持ち上がるというのが、8月以来パターンになっている気がする…というようなゴタクはさておき。

いったん不完全な訂正案をここに出します。その上で、もう一つの問題と合わせてEvenstar 様の検討を願うための別稿をアップ予定。

--------------------------------
>正しい順序は
>1)アラゴルン:白き都は落とさせない、我らが民を滅ぼさせはしない
>2)ボロミア:我らが民・・我らが民・・・

誤り:Boromir means the people of Minas Tirith, not the human race on earth as a whole. This subtitle does not lead to the next line of Aragorn, "I will not let the White City fall."

訂正案:Boromir means the people of Minas Tirith, not the human race on earth as a whole. He is answering to the preceding line of Aragorn's: "I will not let the White City fall. Nor our people fail."

後半訳:彼はその直前のアラゴルンの台詞「白き都は落とさせない、我らが民を滅ぼさせはしない」に応えているのである(から)。

うーん弱い…足りない…良い代案が出なくて間違いを直したに過ぎません。検討続行します。
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